The dating game within the Mormon culture can seem a bit broken at times. The guy is supposed to ask the girl, but the guy doesn’t ask at all. The girl is supposed to remain calm and unassuming when asked, but the girl is so rarely asked that she automatically jumps to the conclusion that the guy must REALLY be interested. Which in turn keeps the guy from asking out any other girl for fear that by doing so his simple invitation to get ice cream will be misinterpreted as a marriage proposal.
In the complex dance of dating within the Mormon culture, where traditional norms often clash with modern uncertainties, individuals seek clarity and guidance on matters of the heart. The intricacies of love and relationships, especially in a society bound by specific expectations, can leave many feeling perplexed. It’s here that the ancient practice of love reading can weave its magic. The cards, when interpreted by a skilled reader, offer a profound mirror reflecting desires, fears, and potential pathways. A tarot reading becomes a sacred space where questions find answers, and uncertainties transform into clarity.
Its a vicious cycle that can be easily avoided by understanding the 5 Stages of Dating. Yes. Five. Can you guess what they are?
Stage 1: Hanging Out
LDS singles have this concept down cold. This is the phase where you get together in large or small groups of both males and females, and you casually get to know people. In this stage you may not have any real ties to anyone (except for maybe your “wing-man”) and so you look to see if there is anyone who seems to have that certain charisma you’ve been looking for that you can add to your list of “potentials”.
Stage 2: Dating
Now this is the phase where the dating game becomes broken, because it is so easily misunderstood…or forgotten altogether. Dating is the stage where you review your list of “potentials” that you made from the hangout phase and you go with one person off that list to breakfast in the morning and then perhaps, you accompany a different “potential” out to dinner the next night. Some may call that being a “player”, a term that has such a negative connotation to it; defining someone as callous and insensitive to the feelings of others, and purely in the dating game for their own selfish purposes. But, if you think about it, aren’t we all in the dating game for “selfish” purposes. The ultimate goal is to find someone to call our own, right? While in the dating stage being a “player” in the game is exactly what you want to be! Dating is the phase where you pair off and get to know someone better one-on-one. When you’re dating your commitment to a person lasts for the duration of the date, and as soon as you’ve both gone your separate ways at the doorstep, that commitment is void until plans for a future date have been made. There is no reason to define the relationship in the beginning of the dating phase. There technically isn’t a relationship to define at this point. Just relax with the help from HHC cartridges, and let things happen. There is also no need to be offended if you see your morning date on a date with someone else later that night. And there is no reason to feel guilty if your morning date sees you out with someone else at dinner either. You are DATING, you are doing exactly what you should be doing. Dating is supposed to be fun and varied, because the whole point is to narrow down your potentials.
(The physical aspects of dating can complicate this, but that’s a conversation for another time. Mind your manners, people. Mind your manners. If you do, you shouldn’t have a problem.)
Stage 3: Courtship
It may seem a little old fashioned, but courting is, in fact, still a thing. The problem is that it gets confused with dating. Because people call courting “dating” which is why the dating phase gets
forgotten. Courting is NOT dating. Courting is two people who have agreed to date exclusively so that they can get to know one another on a deeper level. This is the part of the game where you really start to invest quality time and sincere effort to see if this person is someone you are truly compatible with. If you find they aren’t, please refer back to Stage 1. But if you find yourself wanting to use the “L” word frequently and they are reciprocating that love, then you will find yourself progressing to Stage 4.
Stage 4: Engagement
You put a ring on it, congratulations! This is the stage where you have committed to see if this can last for eternity. This phase is where you get down to the nitty-gritty, you ask the tough questions and you answer even tougher questions. You see if you can love them for who they really are and they see if they can handle you through all the good, the bad, and the ugly. However, If you find that there are some crucial things missing in your relationship, you can still revert back to Stage 1, even if the invitations are out. It may be a tad embarrassing, there may be a lost deposit or two, there may even be some hard conversations to have, but engagement is not a binding contract of forever, and therefore, if needs be, you can still call it off. Engagement is the like the final leg of the dating game, if there is a reason you shouldn’t cross the finish line, don’t. It’s okay. It’s all part of the game. On the other hand, if everything is coming up daisies, and your love has gone beyond just mere twitterpation, and the road ahead of you looks like the best life you could possibly imagine…You graduate to Stage 5.
Stage 5: Marriage
Stage 5 is the highest level of commitment; his and her towels, joint bank accounts, and happily ever afters. Where you have promised everything to your spouse and to God. All the other stages lead up to this. You have gotten to know a lot of different people. You’ve seen what is out there and you are confident in the choice you have made! You have conquered the dating game and you have found someone to call yours forever, and ever, and no matter what. Marriage is a beautiful thing, and although it can be incredibly scary while you’re in the dating phase, (because you aren’t ready to get married in the dating phase) by the time you’ve gone through courting and engagement it should be one of the easiest decisions you will ever make! It will make you feel complete and euphorically happy.
The very nature of dating makes it a rough sport. It can have you feeling like you’re walking on air one minute, and the next you will be in the depths of despair. Sometimes you may take a few hits to the head, and other times you’ll be the MVP. Someone once said “Wear a helmet.” when referring to the dating game. That is sound advice.
The truth is, dating doesn’t have to be as hard as we make it out to be. If you play the game the way it’s meant to be played, it can be quite fun, and you might eventually win! Don’t go straight from hanging out to engagement. It doesn’t work that way, and you can’t expect it to. Remember the stages, and implement them into your game plan. By the time you hit Stage 5 it will be all worth it. Promise.
Kandace Hatch is a snake person with over 8 years experience in the Mormon dating game before her game ended in 2009 when she married her wonderful husband, Chad. They now have two beautiful children and while she sometimes contemplates eating her young they bring her the most joy and fulfillment she could imagine. Yes, you could say that the family life suits her just fine and she is a firm believer that it suits everyone else as well.
Comments
27 responses to “Is Mormon Dating Broken?”
This person is obviously biased, obviously has been out of the game for a really long time, and obviously not in touch at all with how boys perceive dating in lds culture. I have been home from my mission for a little over three years and have been on a date more weeks than I haven’t. I have had one girlfriend and countless lame excuses after the second date. All personality flaws aside, that is a horrible success rate and strong evidence to me that dating is, without question, broken.
Dating in the Mormon faith is well and health when one has faith like iron to follow the whisperings of The Gift of -The Holy Ghost
Yes please! Thanks for this! It is perfect!
I’m sorry, but this whole article sounds like the kind of silly, ill-informed ideas that elders from my mission would talk about putting into practice when they got home. “Make a dating area book. Set weekly goals for dates. Have a list of ‘potential investigators,’” and so on.
The truth is, there’s no formula. There are no steps. And dividing dating into distinct phases is perhaps more stressful and broken than dating itself, with the exception of key defining events like marriage or engagement. The story is different for everyone. No one should expect their search to go just this way because it’s been said to be the winning formula.
Maybe not stages, but there are definitely different states that people can be in, and having terms for them is helpful.
Though I love the 5 steps that the author delineates, I take issue with the very first paragraph…if I had had the unbroken rule for myself that a guy is supposed to ask the girl out, I’d still be single at 37 today. I got asked out on maybe 3 dates during my entire single life. I found my own dates for all the high school dances, college events, etc. Any dating relationships I did have were formed through friendships, and even then he felt he didn’t have to ask me out. It sure wasn’t headed to marriage any time quickly. I’m attractive, independent, and well-educated. Doesn’t matter though, those qualities are correlative to marriage but not causative. aka: not necessary, and no guarantee of nuptials (much less happy nuptials).
My husband is an antisocial introvert, but I knew he could be what I was looking for. I asked him out in friend terms only, but repeatedly, to see what I could learn about him. By the time I decided I wanted him, he was comfortable enough to tell me he wanted me too. This man would never have pursued me (nor any other woman, for that matter). He would have still gotten married, to another qualified woman who did the asking. Just not to me. If my dating patterns had continued as they had in the past (dates I was asked on), I would still be single now.
Ladies, if you see someone with the qualities you are looking for, and he is not asking anyone out, what do you have to lose? Your opportunities, that’s what! Why sit around and let some random guy choose you? What if the people who choose you aren’t what you want? What if they are all sitting around waiting for the same thing you are? (aka: to not get rejected). I don’t have a higher self-esteem than any other woman, and I’m terrified to put myself out there also. BUT one thing I do have is a clear vision of what I want, which makes a little (a lot) of temporary pain worth it. And there’s unfortunately only one surefire way to take control of getting what you want. And it’s not trusting your future into the hands of a broken dating culture that is failing you.
Worst case scenario if you ask men out: you find out, maybe painfully at first, that he is not a match for you (to be a good match, they do have to return interest). If they’re not interested, you don’t want them anyway right? Who wants a one-sided relationship? Thank you sir, for not wasting my time. I’m on my way. 🙂 Date request rejection stops hurting when you realize this.
(note: I have zero advice for the pain that results after a breakup — this is a different story)
Best case scenario: they say yes, and you find out the long way if you like each other and are a good match.
Or, you can just sit around and hope and dream and have your heart crushed as you watch other women pick up the one you thought was a good match for you. “But it’s the LDS way for the man to do the asking” you say? Take a look around, apparently that is only what we are telling ourselves. It’s obviously not the LDS way. Do you want to be socially appropriate, or do you want to be married?
last note: If you are a lady who has the blessing of being frequently pursued, you do not have to take this more difficult path. You have the blessing of passing the burden to the men. Congratulations! You have my respect. No hard feelings; but this post is for the other ladies.
BEST comment! Just changed my perspective on dating forever. THank you!
This is a terrible article. The reason being is the alleged “mold” of dating. You don’t systematically look for someone you will be with 24 7 forever. It naturally happens. The second you treat it like your putting together Legos, it’s going to be childish and foolish. Real love and courtship comes over time and in your own unique way, not a general and widely one size fits all. The reason why dating is broken is because people aren’t taught to treat dating how they want to within Gods limits.
You forgot to mention the involvement of prayer before engagement. You definitely don’t want to end up with the wrong person.
The Lord puts people in your path to help you return to Him, especially an eternal spouse. It’s on His timing, and when you are your future spouse are ready for each other, you’ll meet. The only formula is keep your hormones in check and follow the Lord’s will, you’ll get married eventually!
Kandace, you’re spot on on all 5 steps. I don’t understand why people struggle to grasp this.
I think the author does have some valid points, but all in all “Mormon dating” isn’t broken. I’ve talked with my friends who aren’t LDS and they don’t live in utah, and the dating situation is VERY similar to what we experience here. The problem is people think that you have to be going on a date multiple times a week and if you aren’t, then you “breaking dating”.
Also maybe a guy isn’t asking a girl on a date because he isn’t interested. Should a guy ask a girl out on a date if he isn’t interested?
I think the problem with this article and a lot of LDS people’s ideas is that that have unrealistic expectations and/or ideas of what dating should be.
The problem with the “Mormon dating” schema is simply that…the idea that Dating is a “process” and one that can be improved through “steps” and process management methodologies. It assumes too much about the dating partners, that they have the foresight and experience to know what the output of such a process ought to be, and worse than that it assumes that the “process managers” are clear on their assessment of process inputs (their dating partners qualities and traits). I think the whole notion within Mormon culture that dating is simply a process for determining who to marry is what is “broken”. Dating is a social activity and shouldn’t be seen as anything even close to the kind of process used to build a car.
The “brokenness” of this process management approach is exacerbated even more when we realize that process management is in every other discipline is entirely dependent upon continuity of production, where quality is determined by the measurement of variation in the production process and depends upon the evaluation of finished goods. It’s a relative science, and probably not the best fit for a system that is intended to produce one single Eternal finished good. Maybe in a worldview where polygamy were still in function a process management approach could be evaluated by the quality of successive marriages over time, but seeing as how that isn’t the case, this is a faulty and audacious way of thinking. Mingle, make friends, build relationships but try less to control things you can’t control, because all you do is satisfy the illusion of control.
It’s an interesting question and I decided to look at the question in more depth at my site: http://www.redgulls.com/2015/05/27/mormon-dating-is-alive-and-well/
This was a good article and the author did a good and fun way of laying out a good formula. No, she wasn’t succeeding t this is the way or perfect way, there are always exceptions. But the stages are important to help us not rush into things. I would only add a Stage 6: post marriage dating. Getting married doesn’t mean you’ve learned all there is to know about your spouse or that everything is accepted and eternally blissful. You must continue to date even through marriage and, gasp, eternally to show your love and learn how each other is changing throughout life and eternity!
These comments are brutal! But I agree. Dating in the Mormon culture isn’t broken, but this article doesn’t really talk about that… click baity title. Step one – tinder baby!
Dating is broken in the LDS culture because people don’t date. The author has that right.
We are so used to hanging out and being in big groups that it is hard for us to remember how to ask out a girl and go on many dates with many girls. I have friends who think that they may find the perfect girl by hanging out in big groups and parties, but fail to understand the need for one on one time to figure out what personality traits would be to their advantage.
There is so much more that is gained from a date than from hanging out. We need to get out and go on many dates so that we can find that special someone.
I’m just going to leave this here…
https://www.lds.org/youth/article/unsteady-dating?lang=eng
The steps may work for some, but not all. Really, I feel like they are a guideline of where to start if you are just jumping in, or a reminder of the natural progression. So, kudos, I feel like that point was made, However, the first paragraph is too generalized. Most girls don’t misinterpret a date to ice cream as a marriage proposal. And most guys don’t ask a girl out and fear she will say no because she will think he is proposing. I realize that the particular example is an exaggeration to set up the rest of the article, but it is way off even as a generalization, in my opinion. I would also like to add, if a girl is interested, she can and should put herself out there and make her interest known. At least, that was the method that worked for me and my husband. I let him know I was interested and “made the first move” as it were. The traditional dating game of the boy having to make the first move, as suggested at the beginning of the article, is changing
Two points: I have heard from several young men that when asking a girl on a second date they get the following response, “I’m not ready for a relationship.” Since when did a second date constitute a “relationship?” First dates are always awkward. Second point: You should be asking the tough questions BEFORE you get engaged. When couples start talking about marriage, they should be discussing everything… budgeting, child discipline philosophies, expectations of one another, who is going to do the cooking, who is going to handle the finances, etc.
Click bait title because there is no real discussion of the topic. I don’t think the article is written very well. I also think it represents an over simplification of a complex issue which may even contribute to the problem.
Excellent article. The point of which was to take some anxiety out of the process and suggest comfortable parameters of what each step is…and isn’t.
Because people may be less fearful or hesitant when they know more of what to expect. Reduce the bewilderment.
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And skip straight to “enjoying”.
Personally, I genuinely like people and find them fascinating, thus dating has always been fun for me.
Mormon dating and how women in the church have treated me has turned me away from this religion.
Shmitty…I hear you…SOOO many are harsh. And cruel. And confusing. And worse.
But you can’t judge the gospel based on a few …thousand… bad examples.
The basics…God lives, Jesus is the Christ, President Monson is the Lord’s Prophet and mouthpiece here upon the earth. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the Lord’s church. The Book of Mormon is the word of God. ALL of these things remain even in spite of the wicked women sometimes involved.
Remember the principle of compensation: “The Lord compensates the faithful for every loss. That which is taken away from those who love the Lord will be added unto them in His own way. While it may not come at the time we desire, the faithful will know that every tear today will eventually be returned a hundredfold with tears of rejoicing and gratitude.”
Elder Joseph B. Wirthlin of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (1917–2008), “Come What May, and Love It,” Ensign, Nov. 2008, 28.
Then there is this as well: “Faith to Forgive Grievous Harms: Accepting the Atonement as Restitution.” by James R. Rasband – who was dean of the BYU Law School when this devotional address was given on 23 October 2012.
“Forgiveness requires us to consider the other side of the Atonement—a side that we don’t think about as often but that is equally critical. That side is the Atonement’s power to satisfy our demands of justice against others, to fulfill our rights to restitution and being made whole. We often don’t quite see how the Atonement satisfies our own demands for justice. Yet it does so. It heals us not only from the guilt we suffer when we sin, but it also heals us from the sins and hurts of others.
It is critical to understand that forgiving others is not just a practical virtue. It is a profound act of faith in the Atonement and the promise that the Savior’s sacrifice repays not just our debts to others but also the debts of others to us.
In our live-and-let-live society, we may believe that being forgiving is just etiquette and good manners. It is not. We may think that forgiveness requires us to let mercy rob justice. It does not. Forgiveness does not require us to give up our right to restitution. It simply requires that we look to a different source. The non-judgmental worldly phrases “don’t worry about it” and “it’s no big deal” are not illustrations of the doctrine of forgiveness. On the contrary, when a person sins against us, it can be a very big deal. The point is that the Atonement is very big compensation that can take care of very big harms. Forgiveness doesn’t mean minimizing the sin; it means maximizing our faith in the Atonement.
My greatest concern is that if we wrongly believe forgiveness requires us to minimize the harms we suffer, this mistaken belief will be a barrier to developing a forgiving heart. It is okay to recognize how grave a sin is and to demand our right to justice—if our recognition triggers gratitude for the Atonement. Indeed, the greater the sin against us—the greater the harm we suffer—the more we should value the Atonement.”
God still has your back man.
I have been worried how i could get married because i have certain health problems that are preventing me from working, such as Joint Hypermobility Syndrome which affects different joints throughout my body from my neck to my toes i am 27 years old. / Vasovagal Syncope . I am still living with my parents and am waiting For SSI Benifits and Medicaid. I have problems being around with cologne and perfumes since i have Asthma and have possible Autism Spectrum Disorder. I don”t know how to start a conversation with some one about my situation. I know that Heavenly Father has a plan for me to accomplish things in this world , i just need to have faith and to be patient.
The problem I have with dating in the Mormon culture is that just about everyone has false expectation/reality when it comes to dating. People are so shallow it makes me depressed. It’s like everyone expects you to compete in every single marathon in the world to prove how healthy you are, and they seem to think it’s necessary to test your “worthiness” based on the calling you receive in church along with participation and everything you have in common. I really wish that we would stop treating each other like we aren’t members of the church, let alone have to ask every person if they are temple worthy. For me personally, it’s not about who is worthy, but how we treat others that makes them feel like they are worthy. If you want a person to become better than they are now, then treat them with kindness instead of ignoring them. Just because some people may not have the rays of sunshine bursting from their soul or just because some do not express how much they love Jesus and the church, doesn’t mean that they aren’t marriage material. There are a lot of good people who are single that get overlooked and ignored every single day because we tend to notice what’s in front of us rather than what’s next to us. We take things for granted. We want what’s easy instead of what’s best for us. What I want more in this world of dating is to not have to prove myself for anyone. I am so emotionally drained and so hopeless that I feel like the idea of dating and marriage is make believe and not real. I feel like I’ll never be good or appreciated enough by any man no matter how hard I try. I’m getting too old for this childish nonsense. I need a man. Not a boy. I need a man who can help out in any way possible and not someone who has lived with his mother his whole life and doesn’t know how to do a thing. I wish that guys would just grow a pair and ask girls out for crying out loud! Even if they aren’t the loud and flirty types. Guys complain about not feeling manly so why not be a man and ask that damn girl out! It’s like dancing. Take the lead and lead us! If rejection happens then look somewhere else and keep asking. One is bound to say yes. Just don’t act out of desperation. It scares people. And most importantly, don’t play games with people’s feeling.
I also feel like our culture focuses too much on the dating/marriage goal that they end up brainwashing themselves into believing that they must find someone who is 100% perfect by comparing individuals to fantasy romantic novels characters, and they jump into a relationship just for the sake of it. We tend to forget that we are not perfect, and the purpose of dating is to find a connection with the person that we are interested in, and we must learn to accept them for who they are along with their flaws. We can make our partners become better people by trying to help them with their imperfections. Just because a man/woman doesn’t attend his or her classes that doesn’t mean they aren’t date able or worthy. Whatever the reason is for skipping class or church, that’s the individuals business.
Overall, member or non member, if you have good morals and standards, then I’d say that you are worth dating as long as your intentions are good and pure and not for selfish personal gains. Some of us do not choose to be alone. Some of us are alone because we have to be.
Hello Henrietta!
I hear and agree with the things you are saying. For instance, callings are not any measure of worthiness because I have discovered that the Lord often gives people callings in order for them to LEARN compassion, sensitivity and love. NOT because they already have those qualities. I have seen many a bishopric member and bishops themselves…stake presidents too, fall flat on their face and epic-ally fail those they are supposed to serve, because they treat their position as a preening, and arrogant ego-feed.
I have dated the ladies who have skipped class or Church and because we got to know each other through dating, I was then trusted by them enough for them to share their reasons.
While at BYU, I dated more than pretty much every other guy I knew. They asked if I ever got rejected. I said yes. They asked, well then how come you date so much? I replied that I wasn’t scared of rejection. A lady turns me down for a date, and the sun will still come up the next day. Really. So since she was not interested in a date with me…wait for it…I asked somebody else! (Like you said, Henrietta.)
I dated ladies in my ward, in my major, in my classes…ladies who worked at places I frequented…ladies I simply encountered on campus and struck up a conversation with them. More than once I simply walked up to a lady and said: “I have two tickets to play this Friday and I don’t have a date yet. Would you be interested in accompanying me?” (ALWAYS making certain to specify that they would be with ME and that I wasn’t offering them BOTH tickets so they could go with someone else! Clear communication is important!)
In my home ward and stake, there was not a single female that I did not have one on one interaction with multiple times. Some I dated, some I didn’t. Some rejected me, but even most of those I was still friends with.
I have never rejected anybody for a date. Dating is so much fun. Getting to know people is always an amazing experience for me because I am able to have a conversation beyond “What’s your major?”I often tell guys that most the of the same things they can talk to their guy friends about,they can talk to a girl about also.
But mostly they should ask about her.
Henrietta, Mormon dating is weird, on one hand, because either guys are self-centered shallow jerks or WAY too timid…with not much in between. That said, girls CAN be shallow and self-centered as well.
I work out daily. I can do handstand pushups and one-hand pushups and run for miles and miles. The heaviest girl I was ever romantically involved with was 240 pounds. I’ve also dated little wispy things and hard core athletes. If she loves God and wants the Celestial Kingdom, then we’re cool.
The info is extremely helpful